«ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης»...
Aristotle, Rhetoric, 1.1:
ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ: ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης
I translate it thus:
The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art]
ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ
for both concern such things that are common in a certain manner to everyone
ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων
My question concerns the phrase:
ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης
Here is what (I think) I know:
οὐδεμιᾶς, ἐπιστήμης, and ἀφωρισμένης all share the same declension (i.e., feminine, genitive, singular).
According to LSJ on the verb εἰμί (re: ἐστὶ),
ἔστι impers., c. inf., it is possible...
Edit (11/14/2018@5:48 PM): I have revised my translation, as follows:
The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art], for both concern such things which are common, in a certain manner, of all people and are possible to know, not being limited to scientific knowledge.
Please critique for me please. I am attempting to keep it as close to the Greek as possible while still possessing sense.
greek aristotle
asked Nov 14 '18 at 16:38
Der ÜbermenschDer Übermensch
1,3552528
add a comment |
Aristotle, Rhetoric, 1.1:
ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ: ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης
I translate it thus:
The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art]
ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ
for both concern such things that are common in a certain manner to everyone
ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων
My question concerns the phrase:
ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης
Here is what (I think) I know:
οὐδεμιᾶς, ἐπιστήμης, and ἀφωρισμένης all share the same declension (i.e., feminine, genitive, singular).
According to LSJ on the verb εἰμί (re: ἐστὶ),
ἔστι impers., c. inf., it is possible...
Edit (11/14/2018@5:48 PM): I have revised my translation, as follows:
The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art], for both concern such things which are common, in a certain manner, of all people and are possible to know, not being limited to scientific knowledge.
Please critique for me please. I am attempting to keep it as close to the Greek as possible while still possessing sense.
greek aristotle
asked Nov 14 '18 at 16:38
Der ÜbermenschDer Übermensch
1,3552528
add a comment |
Aristotle, Rhetoric, 1.1:
ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ: ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης
I translate it thus:
The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art]
ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ
for both concern such things that are common in a certain manner to everyone
ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων
My question concerns the phrase:
ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης
Here is what (I think) I know:
οὐδεμιᾶς, ἐπιστήμης, and ἀφωρισμένης all share the same declension (i.e., feminine, genitive, singular).
According to LSJ on the verb εἰμί (re: ἐστὶ),
ἔστι impers., c. inf., it is possible...
Edit (11/14/2018@5:48 PM): I have revised my translation, as follows:
The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art], for both concern such things which are common, in a certain manner, of all people and are possible to know, not being limited to scientific knowledge.
Please critique for me please. I am attempting to keep it as close to the Greek as possible while still possessing sense.
greek aristotle
asked Nov 14 '18 at 16:38
Der ÜbermenschDer Übermensch
1,3552528
Aristotle, Rhetoric, 1.1:
ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ: ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης
I translate it thus:
The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art]
ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ
for both concern such things that are common in a certain manner to everyone
ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων
My question concerns the phrase:
ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης
Here is what (I think) I know:
οὐδεμιᾶς, ἐπιστήμης, and ἀφωρισμένης all share the same declension (i.e., feminine, genitive, singular).
According to LSJ on the verb εἰμί (re: ἐστὶ),
ἔστι impers., c. inf., it is possible...
Edit (11/14/2018@5:48 PM): I have revised my translation, as follows:
The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art], for both concern such things which are common, in a certain manner, of all people and are possible to know, not being limited to scientific knowledge.
Please critique for me please. I am attempting to keep it as close to the Greek as possible while still possessing sense.
greek aristotle
greek aristotle
asked Nov 14 '18 at 16:38
Der ÜbermenschDer Übermensch
1,3552528
asked Nov 14 '18 at 16:38
Der ÜbermenschDer Übermensch
1,3552528
edited Nov 14 '18 at 23:52
Der Übermensch
asked Nov 14 '18 at 16:38
Der ÜbermenschDer Übermensch
1,3552528
asked Nov 14 '18 at 16:38
Der ÜbermenschDer Übermensch
1,3552528
asked Nov 14 '18 at 16:38
Der ÜbermenschDer Übermensch
1,3552528
1,3552528
add a comment |
add a comment |
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ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν goes with the previous bit:
περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν
"they are about such things as it is possible to become acquainted with [as being] in a certain manner common to all"
Then οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης may be a genitive absolute: "with no system of knowledge being distinct / specifically dedicated [to them]". Or perhaps better, as brianpck suggests in comments, it can be taken as parallel to ἁπάντων, "common to all and not to any distinct system of knowledge".
answered Nov 14 '18 at 18:23
TKRTKR
14.3k3058
1
I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 18:35
1
I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."
– brianpck
Nov 14 '18 at 20:34
I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.
– Tasos Papastylianou
Nov 14 '18 at 21:12
@TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 21:28
@brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.
– TKR
Nov 14 '18 at 21:31
add a comment |
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ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν goes with the previous bit:
περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν
"they are about such things as it is possible to become acquainted with [as being] in a certain manner common to all"
Then οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης may be a genitive absolute: "with no system of knowledge being distinct / specifically dedicated [to them]". Or perhaps better, as brianpck suggests in comments, it can be taken as parallel to ἁπάντων, "common to all and not to any distinct system of knowledge".
answered Nov 14 '18 at 18:23
TKRTKR
14.3k3058
1
I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 18:35
1
I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."
– brianpck
Nov 14 '18 at 20:34
I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.
– Tasos Papastylianou
Nov 14 '18 at 21:12
@TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 21:28
@brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.
– TKR
Nov 14 '18 at 21:31
add a comment |
ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν goes with the previous bit:
περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν
"they are about such things as it is possible to become acquainted with [as being] in a certain manner common to all"
Then οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης may be a genitive absolute: "with no system of knowledge being distinct / specifically dedicated [to them]". Or perhaps better, as brianpck suggests in comments, it can be taken as parallel to ἁπάντων, "common to all and not to any distinct system of knowledge".
answered Nov 14 '18 at 18:23
TKRTKR
14.3k3058
1
I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 18:35
1
I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."
– brianpck
Nov 14 '18 at 20:34
I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.
– Tasos Papastylianou
Nov 14 '18 at 21:12
@TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 21:28
@brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.
– TKR
Nov 14 '18 at 21:31
add a comment |
ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν goes with the previous bit:
περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν
"they are about such things as it is possible to become acquainted with [as being] in a certain manner common to all"
Then οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης may be a genitive absolute: "with no system of knowledge being distinct / specifically dedicated [to them]". Or perhaps better, as brianpck suggests in comments, it can be taken as parallel to ἁπάντων, "common to all and not to any distinct system of knowledge".
answered Nov 14 '18 at 18:23
TKRTKR
14.3k3058
ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν goes with the previous bit:
περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν
"they are about such things as it is possible to become acquainted with [as being] in a certain manner common to all"
Then οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης may be a genitive absolute: "with no system of knowledge being distinct / specifically dedicated [to them]". Or perhaps better, as brianpck suggests in comments, it can be taken as parallel to ἁπάντων, "common to all and not to any distinct system of knowledge".
answered Nov 14 '18 at 18:23
TKRTKR
14.3k3058
edited Nov 14 '18 at 21:34
answered Nov 14 '18 at 18:23
TKRTKR
14.3k3058
answered Nov 14 '18 at 18:23
TKRTKR
14.3k3058
answered Nov 14 '18 at 18:23
TKRTKR
14.3k3058
14.3k3058
1
I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 18:35
1
I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."
– brianpck
Nov 14 '18 at 20:34
I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.
– Tasos Papastylianou
Nov 14 '18 at 21:12
@TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 21:28
@brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.
– TKR
Nov 14 '18 at 21:31
add a comment |
1
I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 18:35
1
I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."
– brianpck
Nov 14 '18 at 20:34
I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.
– Tasos Papastylianou
Nov 14 '18 at 21:12
@TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 21:28
@brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.
– TKR
Nov 14 '18 at 21:31
1
1
I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 18:35
I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 18:35
1
1
I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."
– brianpck
Nov 14 '18 at 20:34
I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."
– brianpck
Nov 14 '18 at 20:34
I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.
– Tasos Papastylianou
Nov 14 '18 at 21:12
I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.
– Tasos Papastylianou
Nov 14 '18 at 21:12
@TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 21:28
@TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.
– Der Übermensch
Nov 14 '18 at 21:28
@brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.
– TKR
Nov 14 '18 at 21:31
@brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.
– TKR
Nov 14 '18 at 21:31
add a comment |
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