«ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης»...












7















Aristotle, Rhetoric, 1.1:




ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ: ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης




I translate it thus:




The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art]

ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ



for both concern such things that are common in a certain manner to everyone

ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων




My question concerns the phrase:




ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης




Here is what (I think) I know:



οὐδεμιᾶς, ἐπιστήμης, and ἀφωρισμένης all share the same declension (i.e., feminine, genitive, singular).



According to LSJ on the verb εἰμί (re: ἐστὶ),




ἔστι impers., c. inf., it is possible...





Edit (11/14/2018@5:48 PM): I have revised my translation, as follows:




The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art], for both concern such things which are common, in a certain manner, of all people and are possible to know, not being limited to scientific knowledge.




Please critique for me please. I am attempting to keep it as close to the Greek as possible while still possessing sense.






greek aristotle







share|improve this question





























    7















    Aristotle, Rhetoric, 1.1:




    ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ: ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης




    I translate it thus:




    The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art]

    ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ



    for both concern such things that are common in a certain manner to everyone

    ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων




    My question concerns the phrase:




    ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης




    Here is what (I think) I know:



    οὐδεμιᾶς, ἐπιστήμης, and ἀφωρισμένης all share the same declension (i.e., feminine, genitive, singular).



    According to LSJ on the verb εἰμί (re: ἐστὶ),




    ἔστι impers., c. inf., it is possible...





    Edit (11/14/2018@5:48 PM): I have revised my translation, as follows:




    The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art], for both concern such things which are common, in a certain manner, of all people and are possible to know, not being limited to scientific knowledge.




    Please critique for me please. I am attempting to keep it as close to the Greek as possible while still possessing sense.






    greek aristotle







    share|improve this question



























      7












      7








      7








      Aristotle, Rhetoric, 1.1:




      ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ: ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης




      I translate it thus:




      The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art]

      ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ



      for both concern such things that are common in a certain manner to everyone

      ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων




      My question concerns the phrase:




      ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης




      Here is what (I think) I know:



      οὐδεμιᾶς, ἐπιστήμης, and ἀφωρισμένης all share the same declension (i.e., feminine, genitive, singular).



      According to LSJ on the verb εἰμί (re: ἐστὶ),




      ἔστι impers., c. inf., it is possible...





      Edit (11/14/2018@5:48 PM): I have revised my translation, as follows:




      The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art], for both concern such things which are common, in a certain manner, of all people and are possible to know, not being limited to scientific knowledge.




      Please critique for me please. I am attempting to keep it as close to the Greek as possible while still possessing sense.






      greek aristotle







      share|improve this question
















      Aristotle, Rhetoric, 1.1:




      ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ: ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης




      I translate it thus:




      The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art]

      ἡ ῥητορική ἐστιν ἀντίστροφος τῇ διαλεκτικῇ



      for both concern such things that are common in a certain manner to everyone

      ἀμφότεραι γὰρ περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων




      My question concerns the phrase:




      ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν καὶ οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης




      Here is what (I think) I know:



      οὐδεμιᾶς, ἐπιστήμης, and ἀφωρισμένης all share the same declension (i.e., feminine, genitive, singular).



      According to LSJ on the verb εἰμί (re: ἐστὶ),




      ἔστι impers., c. inf., it is possible...





      Edit (11/14/2018@5:48 PM): I have revised my translation, as follows:




      The rhetorical [art] is antistrophic to the dialectical [art], for both concern such things which are common, in a certain manner, of all people and are possible to know, not being limited to scientific knowledge.




      Please critique for me please. I am attempting to keep it as close to the Greek as possible while still possessing sense.






      greek aristotle




      greek aristotle






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      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Nov 14 '18 at 23:52







      Der Übermensch

















      asked Nov 14 '18 at 16:38









      Der ÜbermenschDer Übermensch

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          ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν goes with the previous bit:




          περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν




          "they are about such things as it is possible to become acquainted with [as being] in a certain manner common to all"



          Then οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης may be a genitive absolute: "with no system of knowledge being distinct / specifically dedicated [to them]". Or perhaps better, as brianpck suggests in comments, it can be taken as parallel to ἁπάντων, "common to all and not to any distinct system of knowledge".






          share|improve this answer





















          • 1





            I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O

            – Der Übermensch
            Nov 14 '18 at 18:35






          • 1





            I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."

            – brianpck
            Nov 14 '18 at 20:34











          • I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.

            – Tasos Papastylianou
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:12











          • @TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.

            – Der Übermensch
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:28











          • @brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.

            – TKR
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:31











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          ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν goes with the previous bit:




          περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν




          "they are about such things as it is possible to become acquainted with [as being] in a certain manner common to all"



          Then οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης may be a genitive absolute: "with no system of knowledge being distinct / specifically dedicated [to them]". Or perhaps better, as brianpck suggests in comments, it can be taken as parallel to ἁπάντων, "common to all and not to any distinct system of knowledge".






          share|improve this answer





















          • 1





            I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O

            – Der Übermensch
            Nov 14 '18 at 18:35






          • 1





            I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."

            – brianpck
            Nov 14 '18 at 20:34











          • I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.

            – Tasos Papastylianou
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:12











          • @TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.

            – Der Übermensch
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:28











          • @brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.

            – TKR
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:31
















          6














          ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν goes with the previous bit:




          περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν




          "they are about such things as it is possible to become acquainted with [as being] in a certain manner common to all"



          Then οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης may be a genitive absolute: "with no system of knowledge being distinct / specifically dedicated [to them]". Or perhaps better, as brianpck suggests in comments, it can be taken as parallel to ἁπάντων, "common to all and not to any distinct system of knowledge".






          share|improve this answer





















          • 1





            I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O

            – Der Übermensch
            Nov 14 '18 at 18:35






          • 1





            I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."

            – brianpck
            Nov 14 '18 at 20:34











          • I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.

            – Tasos Papastylianou
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:12











          • @TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.

            – Der Übermensch
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:28











          • @brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.

            – TKR
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:31














          6












          6








          6







          ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν goes with the previous bit:




          περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν




          "they are about such things as it is possible to become acquainted with [as being] in a certain manner common to all"



          Then οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης may be a genitive absolute: "with no system of knowledge being distinct / specifically dedicated [to them]". Or perhaps better, as brianpck suggests in comments, it can be taken as parallel to ἁπάντων, "common to all and not to any distinct system of knowledge".






          share|improve this answer















          ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν goes with the previous bit:




          περὶ τοιούτων τινῶν εἰσιν ἃ κοινὰ τρόπον τινὰ ἁπάντων ἐστὶ γνωρίζειν




          "they are about such things as it is possible to become acquainted with [as being] in a certain manner common to all"



          Then οὐδεμιᾶς ἐπιστήμης ἀφωρισμένης may be a genitive absolute: "with no system of knowledge being distinct / specifically dedicated [to them]". Or perhaps better, as brianpck suggests in comments, it can be taken as parallel to ἁπάντων, "common to all and not to any distinct system of knowledge".







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Nov 14 '18 at 21:34

























          answered Nov 14 '18 at 18:23









          TKRTKR

          14.3k3058




          14.3k3058








          • 1





            I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O

            – Der Übermensch
            Nov 14 '18 at 18:35






          • 1





            I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."

            – brianpck
            Nov 14 '18 at 20:34











          • I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.

            – Tasos Papastylianou
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:12











          • @TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.

            – Der Übermensch
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:28











          • @brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.

            – TKR
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:31














          • 1





            I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O

            – Der Übermensch
            Nov 14 '18 at 18:35






          • 1





            I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."

            – brianpck
            Nov 14 '18 at 20:34











          • I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.

            – Tasos Papastylianou
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:12











          • @TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.

            – Der Übermensch
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:28











          • @brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.

            – TKR
            Nov 14 '18 at 21:31








          1




          1





          I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O

          – Der Übermensch
          Nov 14 '18 at 18:35





          I appreciate the help; I needed it on that one. :O

          – Der Übermensch
          Nov 14 '18 at 18:35




          1




          1





          I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."

          – brianpck
          Nov 14 '18 at 20:34





          I (and some translations I looked up) read the final genitive as one of possession, contrasting with ἁπάντων, roughly: "They are about such things whose knowledge is common to all and not belonging to one specific discipline."

          – brianpck
          Nov 14 '18 at 20:34













          I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.

          – Tasos Papastylianou
          Nov 14 '18 at 21:12





          I would also comment on 'antistrophic', that it would merit a better translation. Presumably what is meant is something along the lines that the two are complementary, or two sides of the same coin.

          – Tasos Papastylianou
          Nov 14 '18 at 21:12













          @TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.

          – Der Übermensch
          Nov 14 '18 at 21:28





          @TasosPapastylianou—I think it loses meaning when not translated as such; it is, after all, a valid English adjective. Moreover, I think Aristotle was thinking of the musical στροφή/ἀντιστροφή. If I were to read a translation with “complimentary” (for example), I would not have any idea that Aristotle had those in mind.

          – Der Übermensch
          Nov 14 '18 at 21:28













          @brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.

          – TKR
          Nov 14 '18 at 21:31





          @brianpck, thanks, good point -- editing accordingly.

          – TKR
          Nov 14 '18 at 21:31


















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          Lugert, Oklahoma

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          Unincorporated community in Oklahoma, United States Lugert, Oklahoma Unincorporated community Foundations from the town of Lugert at the bottom of Lake Altus-Lugert Lugert, Oklahoma Location within the state of Oklahoma Coordinates: 34°53′45″N 99°16′31″W  /  34.89583°N 99.27528°W  / 34.89583; -99.27528 Coordinates: 34°53′45″N 99°16′31″W  /  34.89583°N 99.27528°W  / 34.89583; -99.27528 Country United States State Oklahoma County Kiowa Time zone UTC-6 (Central (CST))  • Summer (DST) UTC-5 (CDT) GNIS feature ID 1100597 Lugert is an unincorporated community in Kiowa County, Oklahoma. [1] The town of Lugert was founded in 1901 on 80 acres (320,000 m 2 ). In the town, there was a general store that housed the Post office and sold dry goods, school supplies, groceries, harnesses, axes and much more. It was named for Frank Lugert, who had moved to the area in 1898. Lugert owned land where the town was sited and also owned the general st...
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