The wave function of a system of two identical particles












2












$begingroup$


For a system of two identical particles, where $r_1$ is the position vector of particle 1 and $r_2$ is the position vec. of particle 2, the wave function should be one of the plus or minus states:
begin{equation}
psi _ pm (r_1,r_2) = A [psi _a(r_1) psi_b (r_2) pm psi_b(r_1) psi_a(r_2)] ,
end{equation}

where $psi_a$ and $psi_b$ are the wave functions of particle 1 and 2 respectively [equation 5.10 of Griffith's Intro to Quantum Mechanics 2nd Ed.].



I see that this equation makes the wave function $psi_pm$ treat the two particles identically, but I don't know of any proof that it is actually the only way of writing this wave equation to treat them identically. For example, why not a wave function like:
begin{equation}
psi _ pm (r_1,r_2) = A sqrt{psi^2 _a(r_1) psi_b^2 (r_2) pm psi^2_b(r_1) psi^2_a(r_2)}~?
end{equation}










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  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It's a valid wavefunction, but you lose the interpretation of having one particle in state a and the other in state b. You just have two particles in some complicated state.
    $endgroup$
    – Javier
    Nov 15 '18 at 21:08
















2












$begingroup$


For a system of two identical particles, where $r_1$ is the position vector of particle 1 and $r_2$ is the position vec. of particle 2, the wave function should be one of the plus or minus states:
begin{equation}
psi _ pm (r_1,r_2) = A [psi _a(r_1) psi_b (r_2) pm psi_b(r_1) psi_a(r_2)] ,
end{equation}

where $psi_a$ and $psi_b$ are the wave functions of particle 1 and 2 respectively [equation 5.10 of Griffith's Intro to Quantum Mechanics 2nd Ed.].



I see that this equation makes the wave function $psi_pm$ treat the two particles identically, but I don't know of any proof that it is actually the only way of writing this wave equation to treat them identically. For example, why not a wave function like:
begin{equation}
psi _ pm (r_1,r_2) = A sqrt{psi^2 _a(r_1) psi_b^2 (r_2) pm psi^2_b(r_1) psi^2_a(r_2)}~?
end{equation}










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It's a valid wavefunction, but you lose the interpretation of having one particle in state a and the other in state b. You just have two particles in some complicated state.
    $endgroup$
    – Javier
    Nov 15 '18 at 21:08














2












2








2





$begingroup$


For a system of two identical particles, where $r_1$ is the position vector of particle 1 and $r_2$ is the position vec. of particle 2, the wave function should be one of the plus or minus states:
begin{equation}
psi _ pm (r_1,r_2) = A [psi _a(r_1) psi_b (r_2) pm psi_b(r_1) psi_a(r_2)] ,
end{equation}

where $psi_a$ and $psi_b$ are the wave functions of particle 1 and 2 respectively [equation 5.10 of Griffith's Intro to Quantum Mechanics 2nd Ed.].



I see that this equation makes the wave function $psi_pm$ treat the two particles identically, but I don't know of any proof that it is actually the only way of writing this wave equation to treat them identically. For example, why not a wave function like:
begin{equation}
psi _ pm (r_1,r_2) = A sqrt{psi^2 _a(r_1) psi_b^2 (r_2) pm psi^2_b(r_1) psi^2_a(r_2)}~?
end{equation}










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




For a system of two identical particles, where $r_1$ is the position vector of particle 1 and $r_2$ is the position vec. of particle 2, the wave function should be one of the plus or minus states:
begin{equation}
psi _ pm (r_1,r_2) = A [psi _a(r_1) psi_b (r_2) pm psi_b(r_1) psi_a(r_2)] ,
end{equation}

where $psi_a$ and $psi_b$ are the wave functions of particle 1 and 2 respectively [equation 5.10 of Griffith's Intro to Quantum Mechanics 2nd Ed.].



I see that this equation makes the wave function $psi_pm$ treat the two particles identically, but I don't know of any proof that it is actually the only way of writing this wave equation to treat them identically. For example, why not a wave function like:
begin{equation}
psi _ pm (r_1,r_2) = A sqrt{psi^2 _a(r_1) psi_b^2 (r_2) pm psi^2_b(r_1) psi^2_a(r_2)}~?
end{equation}







quantum-mechanics wavefunction identical-particles






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edited Nov 15 '18 at 20:19









Qmechanic

106k121961227




106k121961227










asked Nov 15 '18 at 19:09









Mathophile-MathochistMathophile-Mathochist

275




275








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It's a valid wavefunction, but you lose the interpretation of having one particle in state a and the other in state b. You just have two particles in some complicated state.
    $endgroup$
    – Javier
    Nov 15 '18 at 21:08














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It's a valid wavefunction, but you lose the interpretation of having one particle in state a and the other in state b. You just have two particles in some complicated state.
    $endgroup$
    – Javier
    Nov 15 '18 at 21:08








1




1




$begingroup$
It's a valid wavefunction, but you lose the interpretation of having one particle in state a and the other in state b. You just have two particles in some complicated state.
$endgroup$
– Javier
Nov 15 '18 at 21:08




$begingroup$
It's a valid wavefunction, but you lose the interpretation of having one particle in state a and the other in state b. You just have two particles in some complicated state.
$endgroup$
– Javier
Nov 15 '18 at 21:08










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

The requirement is
$$
psi(x_1,x_2) =
begin{cases}
psi(x_2,x_1) & text{for bosons} \
-psi(x_2,x_1) & text{for fermions}.
end{cases}
tag{1}
$$

This property is required by the spin-statistics theorem in relativistic quantum field theory. Since non-relativistic quantum mechanics is supposed to be an approximation to relativistic quantum field theory, we also enforce it in non-relativistic QM.
A special case of equation (1) is
$$
psi(x_1,x_2) approx
begin{cases}
f(x_1)g(x_2)+f(x_2)g(x_1) & text{for bosons} \
f(x_1)g(x_2)-f(x_2)g(x_1) & text{for fermions},
end{cases}
tag{2}
$$

but like Lewis Miller's answer said, this is only a special case. The general requirement is equation (1).



The square-root example written in the question does not satisfy the requirement (1).






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thanks @Dan Yand for mentioning that theorem. If we take $A=i$, wouldn't condition (1) be satisfied by the square-root wave function?
    $endgroup$
    – Mathophile-Mathochist
    Nov 16 '18 at 17:46








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Mathophile-Mathochist For a complex quantity $z$, the function $zmapsto sqrt{z}$ is double-valued, with opposite signs. We can choose the sign for one value of $z$, but then the sign for other values of $z$ should be determined by continuity. So, suppose we start with $z=1$ and apply a continuous rotation in the complex plane to get to $z=-1$, say $z=exp(itheta)$ with $0leq thetaleq pi$. If we choose $sqrt{1}=1$, then $sqrt{exp(itheta)}=exp(itheta/2)$. Since $exp(ipi/2)neq -1$, this shows that the square-root example does not satisfy the fermion sign-change requirement.
    $endgroup$
    – Chiral Anomaly
    Nov 16 '18 at 18:15












  • $begingroup$
    I see, it makes sense.
    $endgroup$
    – Mathophile-Mathochist
    Nov 17 '18 at 22:57



















2












$begingroup$

This product form of two-particle wave function is only correct if the particles are not interacting. Nevertheless, it is often used as a first approximation, and if you take the expectation value of the true Hamiltonian and minimize it (by taking a variational derivative) you get the two-body Hartree-Fock equation which is often used to approximate the ground state energy and wave function for many-body systems of Fermions. This approximation is often called the mean field approximation.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thanks @Lewis Miller. True, this is only for non-interacting particles. I don't know about the two-body Hartree-Fock equation. I'm familiar with variational calculus, so I would appreciate it if you would explain the relation between this equation and OP.
    $endgroup$
    – Mathophile-Mathochist
    Nov 16 '18 at 17:43





















1












$begingroup$

You’re forgetting that the wave function must also satisfy the TISE. With this condition the combine wavefunctions must be the sum of a permutation of products.






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    1












    $begingroup$

    If we have two particles, one in state $psi_a$ and the other in state $psi_b$, then the state vector would be $|psi_arangle|psi_brangle$.



    However, if the particles are indistinguishable, then it is equally likely to have the opposite be true (i.e. the "first" particle in state $psi_b$ and the "second" particle in state $psi_a$). Therefore, we would want the entire state to be a linear combination of these two states, each with equal weight. Therefore we end up with



    $$|Psirangle=|psi_arangle|psi_branglepm|psi_brangle|psi_arangle$$



    If we choose to work in the $|r_1rangle|r_2rangle$ basis, then we end up with the expression you state.



    I think the issue with your state is that it is not a "nice" linear combination of the states where one particle is in state $psi_a$ and the other in state $psi_b$. We need this if we want the postulate to hold that when $|psirangle=sum c_i|psi_nrangle$, we know that there is a probability of $|c_i|^2$ to measure the system to be in state $|psi_irangle$






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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      2












      $begingroup$

      The requirement is
      $$
      psi(x_1,x_2) =
      begin{cases}
      psi(x_2,x_1) & text{for bosons} \
      -psi(x_2,x_1) & text{for fermions}.
      end{cases}
      tag{1}
      $$

      This property is required by the spin-statistics theorem in relativistic quantum field theory. Since non-relativistic quantum mechanics is supposed to be an approximation to relativistic quantum field theory, we also enforce it in non-relativistic QM.
      A special case of equation (1) is
      $$
      psi(x_1,x_2) approx
      begin{cases}
      f(x_1)g(x_2)+f(x_2)g(x_1) & text{for bosons} \
      f(x_1)g(x_2)-f(x_2)g(x_1) & text{for fermions},
      end{cases}
      tag{2}
      $$

      but like Lewis Miller's answer said, this is only a special case. The general requirement is equation (1).



      The square-root example written in the question does not satisfy the requirement (1).






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        Thanks @Dan Yand for mentioning that theorem. If we take $A=i$, wouldn't condition (1) be satisfied by the square-root wave function?
        $endgroup$
        – Mathophile-Mathochist
        Nov 16 '18 at 17:46








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @Mathophile-Mathochist For a complex quantity $z$, the function $zmapsto sqrt{z}$ is double-valued, with opposite signs. We can choose the sign for one value of $z$, but then the sign for other values of $z$ should be determined by continuity. So, suppose we start with $z=1$ and apply a continuous rotation in the complex plane to get to $z=-1$, say $z=exp(itheta)$ with $0leq thetaleq pi$. If we choose $sqrt{1}=1$, then $sqrt{exp(itheta)}=exp(itheta/2)$. Since $exp(ipi/2)neq -1$, this shows that the square-root example does not satisfy the fermion sign-change requirement.
        $endgroup$
        – Chiral Anomaly
        Nov 16 '18 at 18:15












      • $begingroup$
        I see, it makes sense.
        $endgroup$
        – Mathophile-Mathochist
        Nov 17 '18 at 22:57
















      2












      $begingroup$

      The requirement is
      $$
      psi(x_1,x_2) =
      begin{cases}
      psi(x_2,x_1) & text{for bosons} \
      -psi(x_2,x_1) & text{for fermions}.
      end{cases}
      tag{1}
      $$

      This property is required by the spin-statistics theorem in relativistic quantum field theory. Since non-relativistic quantum mechanics is supposed to be an approximation to relativistic quantum field theory, we also enforce it in non-relativistic QM.
      A special case of equation (1) is
      $$
      psi(x_1,x_2) approx
      begin{cases}
      f(x_1)g(x_2)+f(x_2)g(x_1) & text{for bosons} \
      f(x_1)g(x_2)-f(x_2)g(x_1) & text{for fermions},
      end{cases}
      tag{2}
      $$

      but like Lewis Miller's answer said, this is only a special case. The general requirement is equation (1).



      The square-root example written in the question does not satisfy the requirement (1).






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        Thanks @Dan Yand for mentioning that theorem. If we take $A=i$, wouldn't condition (1) be satisfied by the square-root wave function?
        $endgroup$
        – Mathophile-Mathochist
        Nov 16 '18 at 17:46








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @Mathophile-Mathochist For a complex quantity $z$, the function $zmapsto sqrt{z}$ is double-valued, with opposite signs. We can choose the sign for one value of $z$, but then the sign for other values of $z$ should be determined by continuity. So, suppose we start with $z=1$ and apply a continuous rotation in the complex plane to get to $z=-1$, say $z=exp(itheta)$ with $0leq thetaleq pi$. If we choose $sqrt{1}=1$, then $sqrt{exp(itheta)}=exp(itheta/2)$. Since $exp(ipi/2)neq -1$, this shows that the square-root example does not satisfy the fermion sign-change requirement.
        $endgroup$
        – Chiral Anomaly
        Nov 16 '18 at 18:15












      • $begingroup$
        I see, it makes sense.
        $endgroup$
        – Mathophile-Mathochist
        Nov 17 '18 at 22:57














      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$

      The requirement is
      $$
      psi(x_1,x_2) =
      begin{cases}
      psi(x_2,x_1) & text{for bosons} \
      -psi(x_2,x_1) & text{for fermions}.
      end{cases}
      tag{1}
      $$

      This property is required by the spin-statistics theorem in relativistic quantum field theory. Since non-relativistic quantum mechanics is supposed to be an approximation to relativistic quantum field theory, we also enforce it in non-relativistic QM.
      A special case of equation (1) is
      $$
      psi(x_1,x_2) approx
      begin{cases}
      f(x_1)g(x_2)+f(x_2)g(x_1) & text{for bosons} \
      f(x_1)g(x_2)-f(x_2)g(x_1) & text{for fermions},
      end{cases}
      tag{2}
      $$

      but like Lewis Miller's answer said, this is only a special case. The general requirement is equation (1).



      The square-root example written in the question does not satisfy the requirement (1).






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      The requirement is
      $$
      psi(x_1,x_2) =
      begin{cases}
      psi(x_2,x_1) & text{for bosons} \
      -psi(x_2,x_1) & text{for fermions}.
      end{cases}
      tag{1}
      $$

      This property is required by the spin-statistics theorem in relativistic quantum field theory. Since non-relativistic quantum mechanics is supposed to be an approximation to relativistic quantum field theory, we also enforce it in non-relativistic QM.
      A special case of equation (1) is
      $$
      psi(x_1,x_2) approx
      begin{cases}
      f(x_1)g(x_2)+f(x_2)g(x_1) & text{for bosons} \
      f(x_1)g(x_2)-f(x_2)g(x_1) & text{for fermions},
      end{cases}
      tag{2}
      $$

      but like Lewis Miller's answer said, this is only a special case. The general requirement is equation (1).



      The square-root example written in the question does not satisfy the requirement (1).







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered Nov 15 '18 at 23:29









      Chiral AnomalyChiral Anomaly

      12.6k21542




      12.6k21542












      • $begingroup$
        Thanks @Dan Yand for mentioning that theorem. If we take $A=i$, wouldn't condition (1) be satisfied by the square-root wave function?
        $endgroup$
        – Mathophile-Mathochist
        Nov 16 '18 at 17:46








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @Mathophile-Mathochist For a complex quantity $z$, the function $zmapsto sqrt{z}$ is double-valued, with opposite signs. We can choose the sign for one value of $z$, but then the sign for other values of $z$ should be determined by continuity. So, suppose we start with $z=1$ and apply a continuous rotation in the complex plane to get to $z=-1$, say $z=exp(itheta)$ with $0leq thetaleq pi$. If we choose $sqrt{1}=1$, then $sqrt{exp(itheta)}=exp(itheta/2)$. Since $exp(ipi/2)neq -1$, this shows that the square-root example does not satisfy the fermion sign-change requirement.
        $endgroup$
        – Chiral Anomaly
        Nov 16 '18 at 18:15












      • $begingroup$
        I see, it makes sense.
        $endgroup$
        – Mathophile-Mathochist
        Nov 17 '18 at 22:57


















      • $begingroup$
        Thanks @Dan Yand for mentioning that theorem. If we take $A=i$, wouldn't condition (1) be satisfied by the square-root wave function?
        $endgroup$
        – Mathophile-Mathochist
        Nov 16 '18 at 17:46








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @Mathophile-Mathochist For a complex quantity $z$, the function $zmapsto sqrt{z}$ is double-valued, with opposite signs. We can choose the sign for one value of $z$, but then the sign for other values of $z$ should be determined by continuity. So, suppose we start with $z=1$ and apply a continuous rotation in the complex plane to get to $z=-1$, say $z=exp(itheta)$ with $0leq thetaleq pi$. If we choose $sqrt{1}=1$, then $sqrt{exp(itheta)}=exp(itheta/2)$. Since $exp(ipi/2)neq -1$, this shows that the square-root example does not satisfy the fermion sign-change requirement.
        $endgroup$
        – Chiral Anomaly
        Nov 16 '18 at 18:15












      • $begingroup$
        I see, it makes sense.
        $endgroup$
        – Mathophile-Mathochist
        Nov 17 '18 at 22:57
















      $begingroup$
      Thanks @Dan Yand for mentioning that theorem. If we take $A=i$, wouldn't condition (1) be satisfied by the square-root wave function?
      $endgroup$
      – Mathophile-Mathochist
      Nov 16 '18 at 17:46






      $begingroup$
      Thanks @Dan Yand for mentioning that theorem. If we take $A=i$, wouldn't condition (1) be satisfied by the square-root wave function?
      $endgroup$
      – Mathophile-Mathochist
      Nov 16 '18 at 17:46






      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      @Mathophile-Mathochist For a complex quantity $z$, the function $zmapsto sqrt{z}$ is double-valued, with opposite signs. We can choose the sign for one value of $z$, but then the sign for other values of $z$ should be determined by continuity. So, suppose we start with $z=1$ and apply a continuous rotation in the complex plane to get to $z=-1$, say $z=exp(itheta)$ with $0leq thetaleq pi$. If we choose $sqrt{1}=1$, then $sqrt{exp(itheta)}=exp(itheta/2)$. Since $exp(ipi/2)neq -1$, this shows that the square-root example does not satisfy the fermion sign-change requirement.
      $endgroup$
      – Chiral Anomaly
      Nov 16 '18 at 18:15






      $begingroup$
      @Mathophile-Mathochist For a complex quantity $z$, the function $zmapsto sqrt{z}$ is double-valued, with opposite signs. We can choose the sign for one value of $z$, but then the sign for other values of $z$ should be determined by continuity. So, suppose we start with $z=1$ and apply a continuous rotation in the complex plane to get to $z=-1$, say $z=exp(itheta)$ with $0leq thetaleq pi$. If we choose $sqrt{1}=1$, then $sqrt{exp(itheta)}=exp(itheta/2)$. Since $exp(ipi/2)neq -1$, this shows that the square-root example does not satisfy the fermion sign-change requirement.
      $endgroup$
      – Chiral Anomaly
      Nov 16 '18 at 18:15














      $begingroup$
      I see, it makes sense.
      $endgroup$
      – Mathophile-Mathochist
      Nov 17 '18 at 22:57




      $begingroup$
      I see, it makes sense.
      $endgroup$
      – Mathophile-Mathochist
      Nov 17 '18 at 22:57











      2












      $begingroup$

      This product form of two-particle wave function is only correct if the particles are not interacting. Nevertheless, it is often used as a first approximation, and if you take the expectation value of the true Hamiltonian and minimize it (by taking a variational derivative) you get the two-body Hartree-Fock equation which is often used to approximate the ground state energy and wave function for many-body systems of Fermions. This approximation is often called the mean field approximation.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        Thanks @Lewis Miller. True, this is only for non-interacting particles. I don't know about the two-body Hartree-Fock equation. I'm familiar with variational calculus, so I would appreciate it if you would explain the relation between this equation and OP.
        $endgroup$
        – Mathophile-Mathochist
        Nov 16 '18 at 17:43


















      2












      $begingroup$

      This product form of two-particle wave function is only correct if the particles are not interacting. Nevertheless, it is often used as a first approximation, and if you take the expectation value of the true Hamiltonian and minimize it (by taking a variational derivative) you get the two-body Hartree-Fock equation which is often used to approximate the ground state energy and wave function for many-body systems of Fermions. This approximation is often called the mean field approximation.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        Thanks @Lewis Miller. True, this is only for non-interacting particles. I don't know about the two-body Hartree-Fock equation. I'm familiar with variational calculus, so I would appreciate it if you would explain the relation between this equation and OP.
        $endgroup$
        – Mathophile-Mathochist
        Nov 16 '18 at 17:43
















      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$

      This product form of two-particle wave function is only correct if the particles are not interacting. Nevertheless, it is often used as a first approximation, and if you take the expectation value of the true Hamiltonian and minimize it (by taking a variational derivative) you get the two-body Hartree-Fock equation which is often used to approximate the ground state energy and wave function for many-body systems of Fermions. This approximation is often called the mean field approximation.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      This product form of two-particle wave function is only correct if the particles are not interacting. Nevertheless, it is often used as a first approximation, and if you take the expectation value of the true Hamiltonian and minimize it (by taking a variational derivative) you get the two-body Hartree-Fock equation which is often used to approximate the ground state energy and wave function for many-body systems of Fermions. This approximation is often called the mean field approximation.







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered Nov 15 '18 at 19:44









      Lewis MillerLewis Miller

      4,27211022




      4,27211022












      • $begingroup$
        Thanks @Lewis Miller. True, this is only for non-interacting particles. I don't know about the two-body Hartree-Fock equation. I'm familiar with variational calculus, so I would appreciate it if you would explain the relation between this equation and OP.
        $endgroup$
        – Mathophile-Mathochist
        Nov 16 '18 at 17:43




















      • $begingroup$
        Thanks @Lewis Miller. True, this is only for non-interacting particles. I don't know about the two-body Hartree-Fock equation. I'm familiar with variational calculus, so I would appreciate it if you would explain the relation between this equation and OP.
        $endgroup$
        – Mathophile-Mathochist
        Nov 16 '18 at 17:43


















      $begingroup$
      Thanks @Lewis Miller. True, this is only for non-interacting particles. I don't know about the two-body Hartree-Fock equation. I'm familiar with variational calculus, so I would appreciate it if you would explain the relation between this equation and OP.
      $endgroup$
      – Mathophile-Mathochist
      Nov 16 '18 at 17:43






      $begingroup$
      Thanks @Lewis Miller. True, this is only for non-interacting particles. I don't know about the two-body Hartree-Fock equation. I'm familiar with variational calculus, so I would appreciate it if you would explain the relation between this equation and OP.
      $endgroup$
      – Mathophile-Mathochist
      Nov 16 '18 at 17:43













      1












      $begingroup$

      You’re forgetting that the wave function must also satisfy the TISE. With this condition the combine wavefunctions must be the sum of a permutation of products.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        1












        $begingroup$

        You’re forgetting that the wave function must also satisfy the TISE. With this condition the combine wavefunctions must be the sum of a permutation of products.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          You’re forgetting that the wave function must also satisfy the TISE. With this condition the combine wavefunctions must be the sum of a permutation of products.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          You’re forgetting that the wave function must also satisfy the TISE. With this condition the combine wavefunctions must be the sum of a permutation of products.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 15 '18 at 19:33









          Hanting ZhangHanting Zhang

          67119




          67119























              1












              $begingroup$

              If we have two particles, one in state $psi_a$ and the other in state $psi_b$, then the state vector would be $|psi_arangle|psi_brangle$.



              However, if the particles are indistinguishable, then it is equally likely to have the opposite be true (i.e. the "first" particle in state $psi_b$ and the "second" particle in state $psi_a$). Therefore, we would want the entire state to be a linear combination of these two states, each with equal weight. Therefore we end up with



              $$|Psirangle=|psi_arangle|psi_branglepm|psi_brangle|psi_arangle$$



              If we choose to work in the $|r_1rangle|r_2rangle$ basis, then we end up with the expression you state.



              I think the issue with your state is that it is not a "nice" linear combination of the states where one particle is in state $psi_a$ and the other in state $psi_b$. We need this if we want the postulate to hold that when $|psirangle=sum c_i|psi_nrangle$, we know that there is a probability of $|c_i|^2$ to measure the system to be in state $|psi_irangle$






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                1












                $begingroup$

                If we have two particles, one in state $psi_a$ and the other in state $psi_b$, then the state vector would be $|psi_arangle|psi_brangle$.



                However, if the particles are indistinguishable, then it is equally likely to have the opposite be true (i.e. the "first" particle in state $psi_b$ and the "second" particle in state $psi_a$). Therefore, we would want the entire state to be a linear combination of these two states, each with equal weight. Therefore we end up with



                $$|Psirangle=|psi_arangle|psi_branglepm|psi_brangle|psi_arangle$$



                If we choose to work in the $|r_1rangle|r_2rangle$ basis, then we end up with the expression you state.



                I think the issue with your state is that it is not a "nice" linear combination of the states where one particle is in state $psi_a$ and the other in state $psi_b$. We need this if we want the postulate to hold that when $|psirangle=sum c_i|psi_nrangle$, we know that there is a probability of $|c_i|^2$ to measure the system to be in state $|psi_irangle$






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  If we have two particles, one in state $psi_a$ and the other in state $psi_b$, then the state vector would be $|psi_arangle|psi_brangle$.



                  However, if the particles are indistinguishable, then it is equally likely to have the opposite be true (i.e. the "first" particle in state $psi_b$ and the "second" particle in state $psi_a$). Therefore, we would want the entire state to be a linear combination of these two states, each with equal weight. Therefore we end up with



                  $$|Psirangle=|psi_arangle|psi_branglepm|psi_brangle|psi_arangle$$



                  If we choose to work in the $|r_1rangle|r_2rangle$ basis, then we end up with the expression you state.



                  I think the issue with your state is that it is not a "nice" linear combination of the states where one particle is in state $psi_a$ and the other in state $psi_b$. We need this if we want the postulate to hold that when $|psirangle=sum c_i|psi_nrangle$, we know that there is a probability of $|c_i|^2$ to measure the system to be in state $|psi_irangle$






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  If we have two particles, one in state $psi_a$ and the other in state $psi_b$, then the state vector would be $|psi_arangle|psi_brangle$.



                  However, if the particles are indistinguishable, then it is equally likely to have the opposite be true (i.e. the "first" particle in state $psi_b$ and the "second" particle in state $psi_a$). Therefore, we would want the entire state to be a linear combination of these two states, each with equal weight. Therefore we end up with



                  $$|Psirangle=|psi_arangle|psi_branglepm|psi_brangle|psi_arangle$$



                  If we choose to work in the $|r_1rangle|r_2rangle$ basis, then we end up with the expression you state.



                  I think the issue with your state is that it is not a "nice" linear combination of the states where one particle is in state $psi_a$ and the other in state $psi_b$. We need this if we want the postulate to hold that when $|psirangle=sum c_i|psi_nrangle$, we know that there is a probability of $|c_i|^2$ to measure the system to be in state $|psi_irangle$







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Nov 15 '18 at 22:03

























                  answered Nov 15 '18 at 19:58









                  Aaron StevensAaron Stevens

                  13.5k42250




                  13.5k42250






























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